The Beats
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In 1957 a young writer named Jack Kerouac
burst upon the literary scene with the publication of his second novel, On the
Road. The book was a celebration of freedom--of a wild American spirit that had
been smothered by affluence and conformity and was raring to break loose. The
novel's characters were college dropouts, hitchhikers, mad poets of the urban
American night. It had taken Kerouac seven years to find a publisher. When the
book appeared, the Literary Establishment took it as almost a personal affront.
John Updike wrote a parody in The New Yorker entitled On the Street. Truman
Capote accused Kerouac on television of "typing," not writing. The press led by
Time-Life was uniform in its denunciation of this new movement depicting its
members as unwashed, unemployed, ungodly: "beatniks." |
AL: |
You've written about James Wechsler's debate
with Jack Kerouac at Hunter in which Jack denounced the editor and another
opponent as "communist shits." Shortly thereafter , Wechsler assigned you to
write about the Beats.
|
AA: |
There was more to it than that. Wechsler had a son who was very enamored with Allen Ginsberg's poetry. Wechsler wanted to show his son that the Beat Generation was made up of artistic nihilists--which is what he called them.
|
AL: |
Were you
familiar with the Beats? |
AA: |
Not at all. I was a middle class kid from Jersey. What today they would call a "nerd." The first thing I did was read On the Road. I realized that all of the characters were based on real people: Kerouac, Allen Ginsberg, Neal Cassady--I wanted to talk to all of them.
|
AL: |
Neal, of
course, was Dean Moriarty. Allen was called Carlo Marx. |
AA: |
I later found out that Kerouac chose the name
in honor of Harpo, not Karl. Jack was a Marx brothers fan. The Beats had a
whimsical side which attracted me.
|
AL: |
You
visited Kerouac in Northport, Long Island where he was living with his
mother, and Neal Cassady at San Quentin where he was doing a stretch for
marijuana possession. |
AA: |
Allen Ginsberg told me
that Neal got busted for handing a joint to a narc. But I talked to the
cops, and they said he was selling it by the pound. Allen always futzed
things. Whatever he fantasized that's what he said. |
AL: |
What was Neal like?
|
AA: |
Tall. Slender. Good looking. He was very personable.
|
AL: |
Did you ask Neal how he felt about being the hero of On the Road? |
AA: |
Neal resented the fact that he was in jail while Kerouac was getting rich
and famous. He said that Kerouac could at least send him a typewriter. |
AL: |
You've written that Paul Sann, a Post editor, called the Beats a bunch of
"pansies." Was it generally known that Ginsberg and Cassady were lovers?
|
AA: |
Carolyn Cassady told me that Neal slept with Allen. Carolyn and I drove down
to Big Sur to visit Henry Miller. |
AL: |
You alluded to Cassady and Ginsberg's relationship when you quoted Carolyn
as saying that Ginsberg wanted to be in her shoes. You later got to know
Ginsberg well. Why didn't you write a biography of him? |
AA: |
Allen wanted his biographer to be homosexual. |
AL: |
You have called Ginsberg a prophet and a genius, but you and he had a
falling out. |
AA: |
Ginsberg wanted me to remain an invisible journalist. I was trying not to be
invisible. I was Allen's disciple, but he treated me the way Lionel
Trilling, his Columbia professor, treated him--like a pompous don. In the
end, Allen wrote me that he took Rimbaud with a grain of salt. Allen had a
lot of conflicting opinions. |
AL: |
Norman Podhoretz was at Columbia with Ginsberg. He later put the Beats down
in an essay called The Know-Nothing Bohemians. Why did Podhoretz dislike the
Beats? |
AA: |
My guess is that he wanted to be the star in the class of pre-pubescent
neocons. Now, he's just blah. |
AL: |
You asked Billie Holliday and Miles Davis what they thought of the Beats. |
AA: |
Miles told me that it was just "more synthetic white shit." |
AL: |
Kenneth Rexroth helped organize the famous Six Gallery poetry session where
Ginsberg read Howl. But he was always patronizing of the Beats. He once
wrote that in his "small way" Kerouac was like Celine. |
AA: |
Rexroth resented the Beats, so did Kenneth Patchen. I've found that poets
are all such terrible backbiters.
|
AL: |
Alan Kaufman, a San Francisco poet, has coined the term the Beat Corporation
implying that the Beats are now part of the literary mainstream. In twenty
years, will the Beats seem as musty as Hawthorne?
|
AA: |
Some of them do already. |
(Background information for the interview was found in the following: Norman Podhoretz, Doings and Undoings, New York, Farrar, Straus & Giroux, 1964; Gene Feldman and Max Gartenberg, editors, The Beat Generation and The Angry Young Men, New Jersey, Citadel Press, 1984.) |